34: Bitter Sweet Sixteens - Navigating Fatherhood Through Milestones

Episode 34: Bitter Sweet Sixteens — Navigating  Fatherhood Through Milestones

Turning sixteen is supposed to be a celebration — a moment where parents look at their daughters and realize childhood is slowly giving way to adulthood. But for widower fathers, milestones like a Sweet Sixteen can carry a different emotional weight.

In this episode, Jamal and David reflect on their daughters’ sixteenth birthdays and the bittersweet mix of pride, preparation, and grief that comes with it. They share how they planned the celebrations, who helped make those moments special, and the quiet questions many widower dads ask themselves: Am I doing this right? Am I enough for her without her mom?

From candle-lighting ceremonies to family gatherings and private reflections, this conversation explores how fathers honor the mothers who should be there, while guiding their daughters into the next chapter of life. It’s about showing up, building a circle of support, and recognizing that sometimes the most powerful thing a dad can offer isn’t perfection — it’s presence.  

Getting Back Up: Finding Life After Death is a podcast that explores the raw, unfiltered reality of surviving profound personal loss—and finding a way forward.  The idea for the podcast was born after David and Jamal met in 2023. Both widowers, who had lost their wives to cancer, quickly found a deep connection through multiple conversations about pain, perseverance, and parenthood. They realized that while men often bond over music, sports, or TV, they rarely speak candidly about loss or emotional recovery. Getting Back Up was created to change that narrative—blending the everyday with the existential in a format that’s as relatable as it is real. 

Thank you for your support!

Hosts: David McClain & Jamal Jones
Executive Directors: Marlon Jackson & Ted Winners (Like A Gazelle Productions)
Editing: Marlon Jackson
Music: 
Grenada, "Treasure" 
McDonald, Otis, "Phife for Life", otismusic.com

Thank you for listening! Follow us on Instagram/TikTok @getbackuppodcast and on X @GBUpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to Getting Back Up where grief meets growth. Two men, two fathers, and one shared journey of rebuilding.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

We're talking about life after cancer, love, lost, and everything no one tells you. Hi, I'm David McLean.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

And I'm Jamal Jones. And this is Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Yeah, we see we're back in the in the attic, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

I like our comfy digs, man. This is this is nice. I mean the the virtual virtual stuff is is nice and convenient. Yeah. You know, it's nice to be on the road, but it's nice to be back home.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

And that that weather really did take take a toll on top. Took up my parking spot outside. Oh man. You know, finally got the big mountain of snow out the way. Yeah. Thankful to the rain. It came and washed it. But you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

It's kind of extra special that we're in the attic today. It is. It feels nice. Because, well, the executive producer is here.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Oh, yes. Our our executive producer, Mr. Marlon Jackson, is uh no relation to the Michael Jackson. No, or Tato or Jermaine or anything. But yeah. Yeah, it's good to have him. And this is listen, man, it's we're back. Yeah. This is a milestone, milestone episode. Yeah. Uh back where we started. Um, you know, we're we're we're we're gonna have some good conversations on this out. Yeah, yeah. What are we what are we hitting up today?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Man, as we said, this this is a sweet 16 episode here. Oh, yeah. And I just can't believe our young little girls are approaching womanhood, not looking back, but looking forward. Is this the sweet 16 or the bittersweet 16? Ooh, well though folks will hear as we kind of go through this for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's crazy that we're here, that we're turning this page, and we talk about kind of the moments, you know, through this whole journey, you know, fatherhood of widow, yeah, ship, right? Like how you turn these pages and kind of advance through this. So it's gonna be one where you know, some things are gonna, you know, might be tough.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

And were. And were, yeah, yeah. They were, exactly. So to give some context, both our daughters turned 16 in February. Yeah. Within days from each other. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they're they're friends at school and they they introduced us. Right. And, you know, we got to, you know, we're trying to plan episodes, and we're like, no, we can't, I can't do it that day because we got birthday plan in it. We got birthday plans going on. So it was it was interesting navigating that. Yeah. Because it it actually is cool that they introduced us and you know, we get to talk about them on this episode.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Right. And this milestone that Zia, your daughter, Miella, my daughter, are going through now. So what we want to do in this episode in particular is kind of go through what the events look like, just how we kind of prepared for it, and then leave especially the fellows with a guide, how to approach this, just the feelings, the conversations that you're having with your now 16-year-old, and and just how you kind of move forward talking about the celebration, and then just this this whole idea of uh the second time that grief makes its resurgence and how you kind of deal with that.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, and and I mean the I don't know what's more difficult, right? Like, you know, their mothers not being a part of this, you know, during this milestone. Yeah. But just the fact that our daughters are getting closer to becoming women. Like that one is that that one was, you know, I had mixed emotions all across the board. Yeah. But, you know, navigating that that place where, you know, we we we talked about our daughters and they you know, we buy them dresses and they they come in and it just, you know, they got the mid-drift as we talk about, and the you know, you know, the balance of of of giving them their freedom of expression and stopping at the door and be like, oh hell no, you ain't not in that. You're not wearing hat. Turn back around, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Get to get up so sitting behind a the wheel of a car and uh you started that already? That's a whole other thing. Oh, yeah, because yeah, yeah, you started that processing. Yeah, yeah. We're trying to we were in the parking lot driving slowly, baby.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yeah, just yeah, you could turn, put the signal on. Thank God for all these snow days and all this ice underground. I've been able to kiss that one down the road. But you know, no, I mean that the reality is like these these little girls are no longer little girls anymore. And there's there's a part of this where you know they get we are part of this, our our community is part of this. You know, our community of a support system is part of this, and and you know, how do we navigate that? I think is gonna be, you know, like what do we do to celebrate? What do we do to you know, kind of build in all of these things, factoring in that there were so many times we would I I know me, there was from like December through the the the birthday party and after I was just like daring the headlights in so many moments. But yeah, yeah so you know we'll we'll we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk so yeah so listen like we got like you said you got the part one yeah we're gonna talk a little about our story and kind of what we did to celebrate and in part two we'll kind of give some some tips and ideas on how how to help you know other people out there navigate this. So yeah, what yeah, like what was what was uh Miela's so so celebration act in two parts, okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

So Miela's not the type where she wanted this big DJ party and all 50 hundred people out, and that that's just not her, and that that that's fine. And so she had it in two parts where she wanted to go out in the city with some of her friends and also with the the play aunties. Okay. So uh we talk about um Auntie Raquel, who Marlon Jackson's wife, um, and Auntie Gillian and Auntie April. Okay. So all folks I went to school with or were friends with Nalani, and we all raised our children together. Uh not necessarily Jillian, but Gillian kind of that auntie who is always present in many ways, doing the different events, no family of her own, other than her sister. She has she does a lot with her sister as well. And somehow she's does a lot with us, which I'm very thankful for. So, first they went out to the city, went for food and went to a museum, and they had a good time and all these crazy pictures, and then they came back to my house. Originally, because of the snow, they were going to spend a night in the city at a hotel and a couple suites or whatever, and that didn't work out because of the snow and everything. So they came back to my house. Okay. So I'm displaced. Right. All right. So they came as was our studio. So they came up to this studio. Y'all, we got blue tape everywhere, marking off where camera that's gone. Yeah. Because they had sleeping bags and bags of chips and stuff to drink, and all that is gone. So we had to reset and all that. So I went over to executive producer Marla Jackson's house that night.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Oh, you hit the oh, you had to literally get out.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

I had to get out. Because as we talked about in a prior episode, where it may be uncomfortable for women and girls to exist in the same house where there is a male. So I avoid that altogether. Yeah. I'm out. Yeah. I'm over the moment. Parents might not be too keen on that. No, no, no. Ma and I, we're eating chips. We're drinking whatever we wanted to drink. So you kind of got a you kind of got like a good fellas' week, fellas life. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that worked out. Oh, yeah, it really did. So we did that. Second part, we wanted to bring in the grandparents and the friends and have a celebratory dinner. Right. And so we did that, but then maybe it's three parts because we actually had the true celebration where we had an event place. Okay. Uh was a restaurant. We did that and I'll kind of go through all of that. But the idea was to celebrate Miela with the grandparents, her good friends, and have a celebration, a true sweet 16 celebration, candles to represent the different people in our lives. So here's a here's a suggestion that I was a very dear, dear special friend of mine helped me with getting all of this set up. Gift bags for everybody, set up the room. Miela likes purple, so we had purple everywhere, purple runners. It wasn't tacky now, but purple runners, and the cake had some purple in it. Okay. And then we had pictures of Miela and her sister and other people in her life set up on the table. On each side, there was a picture of Miela with somebody, or herself, or her sister, or whatever the case may be. So what we did is at this event, we had a true sweet 16 candlelight lighting ceremony and in the group. So just so as I mentioned, set up at a restaurant, we had Miela, you know, got her hair done and all like that. And she had just gotten her braces off, so she she smiled a big time.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Zaya got hers off like Zia got hers off right after, I think right before Christmas. Oh, really? Right after Christmas. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

So there's it. Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. Had a sash that said sweet six. Did did did Zia do that?

SPEAKER_01 9:58

She didn't want the sash. She is a little bit more low-key. Yeah, she's a little Tiara? We had a tiara and the whole deal. Did you have no no? Oh no. She didn't want that. Okay. Zaya's like, I don't know.

unknown 10:08

All right.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah. It's weird. Yeah, I'll I'll do it. It was weird. Like I was like, you want this? No. No.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Wow. Really understand it. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

All right.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

So so we had everybody come and we had a menu and I pre-printed the menus. Everybody had a selection, it was playful, and and so we had all of that in front of everyone. Right. And so then we had a table with the cake.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

And then the candles that were unlit until we were to light them because you invite people up one at a time. Oh then Yellow would prepare some words about each of them. 15, 30 seconds. We tried to limit it. Yeah. And that kind of thing. So you know, I'm coaching Miel a little before. Remember, you know, eye contact with people, project and and don't look down and work the room and all that stuff. Yeah. You know, that you're supposed to do. Nice. Nice. So that's what we did. So called up each person, and then she had something to say for each of the people. So the first one for the first candle, clearly, clearly it's her mom. I was holding in. I was trying to hold in, brother. Yeah. Because I knew this was that moment where Nalani fills that room in that sense. Yeah. Her presence and absence at the same time. The presence within her children, and our children, presence with her friends who were assembled there too. Yeah. The auntie Jillian's, the auntie Raquel's, the Uncle Marlins, all these different people that we've talked about.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

How many people in total did was it spent?

SPEAKER_03 11:37

20. Okay, that was so maybe a few more than that. So did her mom, first candle, had nice words to say. Thoughtful. Then it was me. Okay. I hope you made the list.

unknown 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I was wondering too, it's like, where am I gonna fall down on this? Yeah, what's the rank? Yeah, what's the rank? Yeah, you're not sure at times. Depending on what she said.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Oh, okay. All right, well, maybe some extra cleaning you have to do this week. If if I'm a low number, yeah, exactly. You know, weight down on the list. So then the group of people, uh Nia Jackson, so uh her her cousin essentially, so Marlon Raquel's daughter. Right. And then the play aunties and Uncle Marlon, obviously, in there as well. Jillian Raquel, all those different people who mean so much to to Miela, and and and she expressed that. Yeah, yeah. Brought them up each one at a time. Nice. Couple of tears, you know, from these adults. And oh me? They do that. Oh me? Yeah, and then they come up, you know, and get the little candle lit, and then they sit down. And then another group of the friends, and then the next group is Grandma Martha, so Nalani's mom. Okay, my mom, so Pamela. Yeah. And then pop pop. So her grandfather. Her grandfather. So yeah. So uh Martha, I should say Nalani's dad, right? Is what I just should say. He wasn't able to join us. Yeah. Um, so he's he's dealing with some some challenges as as far as his health. Okay. So we we had we hated that he he couldn't come, but that was the case. And then Miss Laverne, who I talk about. So Miss Laverne, who's looked and helped out with the girls, loves them dearly, and they love her back. Yeah. So she was featured, and I think she was very much oh, I mean, she's a part of the family. Oh, yeah. Right? She's a part of the family. No question. No question. So we did that, and it again, it was just this idea of keeping it short, all these words about all these different people who meant so much to Miela. Light each of the candles, and she did a beautiful job with what she said and how she carried herself. Yeah. And we'll do the thank you cards soon. So, Miela, if you watch this, gotta do those thank you cards. Get those out. So that's that's something that children should learn how to do is write thank you cards. Yeah. Everybody left with a gift bag, and and we just had a great time. And before that, certainly the happy birthday came. And then I toasted everyone that's there and thanked them for kind of all that they have done for Miela. So that's an idea, guys. Yes. This idea of having a true sweet 16 candlelighting ceremony involve all the people in your young daughter's life that got that daughter to to to this point.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

That is that I think that was a that's a really honor, that's a really nice way of not just honoring her mother, but also honoring all of the community. Yeah. That's important to her. Exactly. Right. And I think that that is defin definitely one way that you know, I think a lot of people think about Sweet 16, and we all think, oh, we've got to go overboard. Which it always goes overboard in some form or fashion. Right. It's a whole lot of money that that generally will go into you know, celebrating your daughter or even your son, right? As they kind of go through these milestones. Um, for for Zaya, she wanted a little bit more low-key. Okay. Um, and I say low-key with an asterisk on it because it wasn't as low-key as you think, but it was it it was lower key in certain ways. And I have to be, I mean, you know, so you know, lost Janice, going on nine years now. Yeah. Right? It's gonna be nine years this year. And so we're further away from kind of the immediacy of it. So yeah, but you know, I'm remarried, I'm you know, so Jordan is is is critical, and she was critical in the whole planning, the execution, and kind of pushing Zai and pushing both of them, you know, pushing me too, because it was a part of me. If I don't, maybe if I don't, if I pretend this isn't coming, she won't turn 16. I I I I don't think you could Yeah, Jordan's like, did you did you contact the venue? Yeah, well next week, uh maybe that'll delay the birthday more, but maybe she's not gonna win. Yeah, maybe she's not. So so so Jordan was critical, but you know, I think there's a part where you know that that is one of the benefits of being remarried because like you you've got Jordan's attention to detail is is is impeccable. Oh none. And you know, she's got you know, we've got girly girls, like she she makes sure that there's like you know the girly girls on the girly girl stuff going on. So we you know Zy had a vision, she wanted it low-key, and you know, like my family's from, you know, kind of West Indians via Panama, right? So of course, you know, we got cotillions in our background. There's cotillions in big dresses, and you know, my parents are like, well, you mean there's there's not gonna be a a band, and there's not gonna be um, you know, any any any big dress is she gonna wear a gown, right? Like all of this stuff, say for you, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, no, this this isn't 1956. Yeah, this isn't what's happening. But Jamal, you went to a cotillion, you went to a couple cotillions. I was like, wow, that was like you know, like f 40 years ago, 34, almost 40 years ago now. Like, I I did, yeah, but yeah, we don't they don't do that now, yeah, yeah. And so that was a fun part of like figuring out the vision and what was Zya's vision and and what did she want to do to celebrate. And and I talked she she had input. She had input. Okay, yeah, yeah. So she she you know, she's like, I don't want this, and I don't want that. Yeah, you know, and and you know, thankfully, you know, what I did tell her is your family has to be there, right? Like your family, your closest family has to be there from both sides. And you know, she we we negotiated, she didn't want us all in a room. I was like, You want to DJ? She's like, I don't want to DJ. I'm like, okay, same thing. She was kind of like low-key on certain things, but I was okay. So what do you want to wear? Do you want to wear like a gown? No, I want to wear a white dress. So then we've got like 20 white dresses being delivered to the house, so and then it's fittings. So this is taking place. So now, like, this isn't just this one day that I have to suffer about my daughter being 16. This is the period of a month of trying on dresses every day and heals as they come in. Oh, so this is like death by a thousand cuts for me, right? Because I'm thousands dresses. I but it's it's like I'm getting to watch this and getting every day to be teased a little bit more, like your daughter's turn is 16.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

So wait, was there like a session where the the box came? Y'all just sit in the living room as she put this.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

No, it wasn't that formal. It was like, you know, you you'd you'd see the box, you know, the boxes would come usually before she got home from school. Okay. And she'd come in like, oh, my dress, and be like, okay, put it on. So it was like every day before dinner. Okay. It was new dress.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

So, what were your comments? I would love to hear what you said about the dress.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Most I I kind of let her just be 16 and turn into, you know, there were some that we will all agree, like, oh yeah, that doesn't fit well, or that's too tight. And most of the time, like, she's generally say that first. No, no, you would walk downstairs and like pip the bottom of the stairs and be like, just want to say this dress is too tight. I don't like it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

And okay, cool. So saved you a whole lecture about yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

So you're selling and yeah, and and Jordan was right there. She was just like, but I like that. You should what if we get it a different size? And and I'm like, there's too much cleavage, there's too much thin, right? So I don't need to show off the back of my head. I'm like, That's not a chip. Yeah, no, we should just try different dress. So so that it was it was a part of it where it was this realization that I have to let her turn 16 and not keep her from growing up.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Um, and then also I wanted her to have input, like, how do you want to celebrate your birthday? And and factoring all the things that your family have to be there, that your mom would have loved to have been here. Like, how do you want to celebrate? So, yeah, you know, I think you know, part of that was that alignment with her involved, okay, where do you want it to be? So we decided to do a restaurant on the Hudson. Which the minute you start doing things on the Hudson by the river, it's not cheap, right? But damn, we okay, private room. I don't want to be in the same room with all the adults, it's I'm gonna be embarrassed. I don't want you guys, grandpa's gonna embarrass me because he would, right? My father is would definitely embarrass her. Um, and so we we negotiated. So she had a beautiful private room, and then we had a room, we were in and a table right outside the room. So but Jordan, we we we called um Zaya's aunt, Janice's sister. Okay. Um, and her and Jordan. Jordan went Jordan and your wife. Jordan and my wife. Her she Jordan went, she bought balloons and flowers and went to florist all throughout Maplewood and South Orange, and you know, looking at different different different table settings and candles, like 30 candles in the room. And it was it was beautiful. Um, and it was Zy, and that was what she wanted. And then, you know, she sat down and she had uh was supposed to be 16 in total, so it's 15 and 15 of her friends um were there, so kind of together they made the 16, and so they had 16 of them around this table, and they all wore Zia wore a white dress, they all of her friends told them, Oh, you gotta wear black dresses, don't nobody wear white. Wow, I'm wearing white, so and she had 16 of her best friends, and at least her best friends here in town. And um, you know, what was important for us that moment was you know when we moved here, you know, Zia was 12, so she was going into seventh grade, and it was really difficult for her leaving the town that we grew up in, leaving that town that all of her experiences with with her mom were memories too, and memories, and you know, her her aunties and cousins that were were were in in the town in Texas that we lived in in Austin. And then coming here and seeing that she built this community of friendships, um, from some that she met from from from when she first came to sch you know, got to school. Some sh new friends from you know the clubs that she's in and things like that. So for me, it was like really seeing that she's truly grown up and matured and also built a community extended from our family. Yeah. Um, and that was something that she struggled with initially. And I think there was a part of me that felt kind of like you know, validated, at least that we gave her all the tools that we need to, that we had the conversations with her that we we needed that we needed to.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

And that she could take center stage.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

And she had the opportunity, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Because that's what we're training our daughters to do, is to take comfortably center stage and command that room and what her outcome in life will be, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah, exactly. So so she had that, and that was important to us, and you know, so we we all the girls gathered, Jordan and Ingrid, uh my my sister-in-law, they met at the restaurant, and I had got I'd uh arranged for a party bus to pick up the girls from our house.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

So with you not in it. No, no, no. No, I was told that I can't go in the party bus. Like I was it was it was enforced the day before that no. I was like, well, can I go in the front seat with the driver? No, no, you so I had to drive a separate car, which made absolutely no sense because you know now so but me and my my my the younger daughter, my younger daughter, Simona. We stayed back, Jordan and and Ingrid met at the restaurant like a couple hours before and set everything up. Um, and you know, the girls all came and they met at the house, and I'm saying all of these beautiful young women and all of their parents are probably also experiencing what we're going through, but not in many of which in most cases are not with this element of loss behind them. Right. And I'm standing there in the moment at this moment, and I'm watching you know Zaya, and she's taking these pictures and she's looking in every mirror in the house to check her dress and her face and her makeup, and she's got makeup done, which she doesn't usually do, do makeup. So that was like so. That was like a whole experience. And in this moment, I'm looking at her and I'm like, wow, she looks so much like her mom. And that was the moment that really hit me of like her mannerisms. And I think I've talked about this before, where there's certain times I see her do something or a gesture, and I'm like, it's interesting, like this this little girl whose mother passed away when she was seven, can through us just just sheer DNA and genetics, like pick up on so many of her mother's mannerisms and behaviors and like facial expressions. And those are the moments where I was just like, wow, like like she's that's there. And I think for me, like again, like and I mentioned like it's been almost nine years, like there's not there's not this still kind of automatic. I think we're further away from the process of like being intentional, so intentional and and and so deliberate, every milestone about kind of building in kind of the honor, yeah, and remembrance of you you don't have to force this. Yeah, and and and some most times I asked them, yeah. Most times I asked them, right? And and I think there was a part where like just seeing her there, and I was just like, wow, like she's here, like she's here with her, yeah. Um, and there was moments where I caught Zia and she's got this serious look on her face, and I'm like, her friends are in the pic, you're coming in there, and she's and she's got this seriousness about her, and I can I know, and I'm like, Are you okay? She's like, I'm good, I'm good. And and that that's the moment where for me it's just like I don't have to ask her what she's thinking about. I know it's there, like I know the missing is there, and I know in that moment that the honor is there, but then also that was important for me, like you know, even getting there and the girls getting on the the bus, and we videotaped the whole thing and they took a million pictures. Um having Ingrid there and Tahir, my stepson, uh Janice's son, um, was there with his girlfriend and you know, our my you know, the whole family, and and and I wanted to keep it family. Yeah. Um, and she wanted to. She's wanted to as well, like not to make it bigger than than it than she didn't want it, you know, than she wanted it to be. Um, but I also was also special for me because it was on my mother's birthday. Right. So my mother was turning uh 76. Okay. And so, you know, my mother gave up her birthday celebration. Of course, we kind of came with the cake too with her and sang happy birthday. And Zaya was beautiful. She would come and leave her private room and come and visit her family and took take pictures with her little cousins and her sister who thought she looked like a little princess, and and then we all went in and sang happy birthday. And but I like I felt it was like I I would look back, and there were times where I would say to myself, like, Janice will be good with this, right? And she'd appreciate not just what we've done, she'd appreciate what Jordan did to help this. That's a good point, right? Like she'd appreciate that with you know, and Jordan went so far out of her way to make this happen, running around the town the morning of coordinating, where should we get the cake from? Where should we get this from? And and I think there's a part where I think for the men who are thinking about how to do this when you've moved forward, like include your your partner, yeah. Like, because I think there's an element where like they want to know how do I fit in this place, right? I I know that you know, Jordan was was very appreciative of making sure and very intentional about being involved, and you know, engaging Ingrid and asking her, you know, Janet, asking Janice's sister, like, hey, come and help me do this. Yeah, because she would want to be there, she would have done it if Janice was there. And I think that was important. And, you know, of course, you know, in the moment, you know, I think maybe the next day or or a couple days later, I told Zy, I was like, Your mom, I wrote her a long letter, and and I told her like how proud her mother would be of her. And it didn't necessarily need to be another thing, I think in your situation, you like I think the candle experience and that was was was a beautiful gesture. I think because we're further removed from it, like I think in in this case, we I chose or we have chosen in many cases to kind of be like be more low-key in some cases. Sometimes I ask the kids what do you want to do? They're like, nothing. Like, oh your mom's birthday's coming up soon. Do you want to go celebrate? You want to no, I just want to like. And I think that's something that like you're always questioning, yeah. Are you doing it the right way? Right. Are you honoring this person who you lost the right way? Are you allowing your children to honor them and memorialize them the best way? You know, I think that's something that you always question if you're doing it right.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

And and and you're getting that feedback from them, which is great. It's not shut down. No, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

There's a dialogue there, but that's happening every day with the the kind of relationship that you have with your daughters and your children. Yeah. The other thing I want to say about the Sweet 16 celebration is the intergenerational aspect of this. We're we're older parents now. And to have our parents there is everything. Oh, because m my mother is 85. Right. And m Martha is in getting into her A's, probably below her 80s. Yeah. I mean, my and and I think that is so because we don't know when they're gonna be able to travel.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Well, for me, I mean, it's like my my grandmother was like not just my mother, but also my grandmother. So there was a point where I'm looking at like Simona, who's who's five, yeah, and her and her cousins who are younger, I mean, who are just as young as her. Then I'm looking at Zay, who's 16, my mother, who's 76, my grandmother, who's 90, about to be 94. Wow. And well, rolling running around chasing the grandkids, like like, you know, she's 50. Yeah. Right. Like, so it's like it's true. When you think about this generational element, and then my sister-in-law who's there, like you you see this and blended family, and blended family, right? And you see this, and at the end of the day, like it all comes back to the community and the friends, right? They're their friends as well, who surrounded them in their moments, yeah. And the moments where they may be grieving and mourning and kind of reflecting on like missing their moms, and you don't know how or what to say, or they didn't they might even tell you at 16 that it's happening, but that there's a community and they know that there's support systems to support them and celebrate with them. Yeah, right. That's important.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

For sure, for sure. Yep, yeah, it means everything. And yeah, I think this is where we will talk about how to approach that conversation, whether with your 16-year-old and then the other people around them as well. So Jamal and I kind of pulled together a couple of different themes that we saw as we were going through the process.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

It's not 16 themes, just so it's not 16. That would have been we're not gonna stay that would have been that would have been corny. It would be cool, but it went kind of corny.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Yeah, it would be corny, yeah, yeah. So we're we're we're not those guys, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

So I mean our kids think we're the our 16-year-olds definitely think we're those guys. That's right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

So the first one I think is the moment that hits you. That 16 isn't just a birthday, it's a milestone that often brings the thought her mom should be here. Yeah. As as as we discussed.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Or at least her mom would love this.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Yes. Yeah. And it's this as you talked about too, the pride in your daughter mixing with the quiet awareness of the symbolic empty chair that's there. Yeah that that person you know isn't physically there, but you see it in the mannerisms, how that person speaks, how that person engages with other people, how she laughs, whatever the case may be. Yeah. I think that is something to think about when this moment that hits you, and that milestones tend to resurface this grief. Oh, yeah. It it brings it back, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That we weren't meant to share this moment without both parents there.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah, is is a part of it where you think about that and there's almost an unfairness. There's an unfairness to you, the parent who's who's who's still here. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

An unfairness that you're able to celebrate.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah, that you're able to celebrate. The unfairness to the child, right? To your child that, oh, like their their parent is there's a mother or father who's missing from this.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

They look over and that person's not gonna be there. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

And then there's a part where strangely there's an unfairness to that person, that family, a mother or father who's no longer here. Right, it's right, right. Like, if your if your belief is there there with you, that's great. But there's an unfairness, like, oh my gosh, like I'm so proud of my daughter in this moment that it's unfair that they don't get to celebrate that with you. And and I think those are things that that kind of resonate. So yeah, I think that's something that you know. I think the the second one, and this is deep with us, right? Like, it's the question whether with widow of fathers ask, right? Like, you know, am I enough without her mom? Right? Like, am I enough? Am I good enough? Can I do this the right way? Am I doing this way? But the the first one, the biggest one is am I enough, you know, to to carry this without you know, without the mother? And I think that's something that you know, with time you realize, and we talk about the letters and cards that we get from our daughters, like you realize you're enough, right? But it is a it's a legitimate question that you'll ask, and it's okay. And then, you know, the other one, you know, daughters, they turn up, you know, they turn to moms for guidance, you know, on relationships and confidence and style and makeup and all of these things. If fathers, in many cases, we don't know where if we're lucky, we could tap somebody in in our community to help do it, do tap the men. I um I I say all the time, thank God that you know I decided to to marry Jordan because she is on it with so many of these things and is okay having the conversations and and then and you know, recognizes that it's an important role for her to step in. And I think for women and men who are stepping into those, stepping into that role, like understand that that's an important role, right? It's an important role to to to be in and to have. You're not you know, we talk about it before, you're not replacing a mother or father, you're not replacing, there's no replacement. It's not, it's there's no way you're but you're definitely stepping in in a model as a model, as a role model. Exactly. Um, and then you know, over time, you know, fathers learn, you know, they're your daughters don't need you to be perfect. They need to experience your failure as much as they need to experience your success. Right? They need to see more than anything that you're present and you're and you're trying your best.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

And that you're it's still under construction.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

That's it.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Who you're going to be.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

That's it. Right. I mean, I mean, you know, I was reading some Yeah, I was reading something, you know, earlier this week, and it was basically like, you know, people who've lost widowers and widows. Um you're not the same person that you were. No. Right. You will not be the same person today, tomorrow down the line that you were the day you're you lost your wife. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

You're talking about our next thing too, is this shift in in fatherhood. 16 marks a time where you're you're you're no longer that protector.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

You're you're actually, to say it better, is it shifts from protector to God. That they have to chart their own course.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

There still is a shotgun.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Right. And that moment's still gonna happen where in Bad Boys, where we meet the boy at the door trying to date. Absolutely. Marlon and I, Marlon Jackson are executive producer now. I think we practice it in our heads.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

I say good luck. There's a there's a line of dudes, there's a line of my boys who will be at that tactile men.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Yeah. Oh, they what what time you name me? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so but so yes, guy, but we may need to get that shotgun like Bad Boys, you know, Bad Boys One or Two, the movie, whatever it was. I can't remember, but you're right. And then also the the conversations are gonna expand to many other categories. They're all coming. So this is one milestone, it's gonna be about driving. We're gonna have to have the conversations, dating, yeah, more and added independence, and certainly responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yeah. I mean, this I I this is one my wife where Jordan will sometimes ask, are you dating any?

SPEAKER_04 37:23

And I'm like, I don't want to, we're not talking about we're not I'm not trying to do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

No, I'm not, yeah, we're not doing this. No, but yeah, those things will come up, right? And and I'm getting the when are we gonna go start driving? Yeah, you know, getting a job, and also it's gonna be responsibilities that we have to push to them as well.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

That's true. That's right. Yeah, it's this preparation for adulthood. That's what we're talking about. This guide. Yeah, they're gonna make the mistakes, they're under construction too. Yeah, they haven't done it before, and we certainly can't just layer on them what we know, especially as men, yeah, that this is the way you're gonna do it. No, no, no, it's gonna be different for them, especially in this generation. Yeah, it's gonna look a little different.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah. I think we touched on it earlier, is the the the element of honoring your mother, or honor honoring her mother, honoring their mother. I think that one is is how do you keep that connection? Just find a way, right? Again, we talked, it doesn't have to be something that's always choreographed. It it could just be a reminder, it could just be it just engaging them in, you know, that we're proud of you. Your mother would be so proud of you. It could be as normal as that, or it could be helping them to find actual ways. I think the the candle, the candle ceremony was beautiful, right? To honor their mother and make sure that they keep that memory in front of them. Yeah. Um, and because it's it's almost like honoring uh ancestry, right? Like especially as black there's a tradition. There's there's traditions of and all families, but especially as in black culture, like where there's always this element of like how we how we honor ancestry, you know, and then I think it also reassures them that just because they're getting older doesn't mean that they're leaving their mother behind. Yeah. Just because, as I mentioned, that's important, right? Just because you know, it's like Zy was seven. Just because you were so young doesn't mean that you forget, right? And there's times same, I'll be going through my phone or you know, my Google or whatever will send me pictures and say, hey, like 10 years ago, and I get to pop these pictures up, I'm like, wow, like let me send this to Zy, let me send this to Jag. I think things like that will keep them connected, yeah. Um, in a healthy way.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

And and it's it doesn't seem so weighty, it's it's a simple reminder.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

And and I think that works best. And you send it and you have to wait for the response.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

It's a more remember, there's also still there's unhealthy ways, like that's for sure. You know, unhealthy ways of forcing that. And that will we won't need to go into them, but just you know, be nice. Wait, you have a story? No, I mean I just you know, you like it it it's like I've had people talk about you should make them say prayers and and and do this and make sure that they make a statement about that, and like if you have to choose what works for them, yeah, right, because they don't you know, I think that's that's the thing. You have to make sure it's yeah, it's healthy, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

And and and and appropriate for that person, that personality as well. So the next one really is navigating the practical gaps because so much has become routine now that you have been a single father. Yes, you may have married and moved forward, but it's still that separation of this person does that or the other because you're so used to, as you have said, Jamal, on previous episodes, you're so used to just doing it yourself. Yeah, you know, and so that this idea that sometime widower dads wish the daughter had her mother's voice for for certain topics, that it would sure help, you know, in certain situations that you have a voice in it, okay, great. You know, that that that's what I need to hear. This reminder that we're keeping the memory alive, yeah. Especially of that your daughter's mother, your late wife. And you had talked about it in a previous episode too, about this idea of many build this circle of trusted women. We just we just talked about it. Yeah, play aunties, the sister of Janice, whatever the case may be. And I think that is really important to to continue this process of of navigating these practical gaps because the goal is support here, yeah. And making your girls yours, mine, and their sisters in this situation, since we have multiple children, that everyone feels as well-rounded as they possibly can. Right. That in involving a Jordan, your now wife, and some others, there's not replacing your mom. Right. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Um, and then you know, that the the conversation that matters, you know, it's the reassurance. Yeah, and you talked about this. Yeah, like just reassuring them, you how proud you are of them, how acknowledging that this is that it's still not easy, yeah, right. I think that's important to acknowledge that, hey, I know like growing up with your mom is difficult and not having her hair for these moments. Acknowledging that and letting them know how how proud you are, how beautiful they are, what reminds them of their mom, you know, and and and likewise, like opening them that conversation up for them. Um and also letting know letting them know that I listen, I'm not perfect, we are not perfect, I'm not gonna see all the spots, all that we talked about, the gaps, I'm not all gonna see all the blind spots, and I'm gonna have to tap your aunties and the whole community. And and if there's somebody in your life as a partner, hey, like I might ask them to help, right? And and don't be afraid to lean on them for certain things. And then I think those are the moments that they reinforce and strengthen the connection that we as dads are afraid to lose when our daughters turn 16. Like that to me is like the part, like how many of us are afraid and terrified that our daughters, when they turn 16, won't see us as daddy anymore, right? Um, and I think that's important, like to maintain that, and then you maintain that through having those conversations.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

And the last thing I think is this sense of embracing quiet pride. All of these events are happening, you're seeing the growth in your daughter, and you're watching her grow, and it brings a deep sense of pride. And that is a sense of happiness and joy that is immeasurable, that is priceless. Yeah. And that's when you really we talked about in a previous episode about opening the valves to love. That's always constant there.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

And you you that just feeds you every day to see this growth in your children. I I I just love that sense for for our daughters and for you all out there as well. That you see as a widower certain parts of and elements of your late spouse in your daughter. The good, the challenging, those that need a little smoothing out, but they can do that and they'll come to you. And when you have this crew around you, the support network of play aunties and grandmas and people who are like family, and then also your now wife, Jordan. Same kind of challenge in the sense of helping her to break down some of those. Yeah. You know, as the daughter. Because I think, in particular, this in this quiet pride, raising your daughter becomes another way of honoring the love that you did share. And the reason why you were in the relationship with the wife that you hadn't planned to not be here. Yeah. Yep. That was the original intent. Yeah. You create of that relationship coming together.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Yeah, you you you you connected partially, obviously, because there was attraction and then love and then this desire to build a family together. And then now one person is doing that journey by themselves. Yeah. Or or or in a different way that they thought they would have to do it. And when you have those moments of quiet reflection, when you have those moments of kind of scanning what has happened over this period of time, you've got to count your wins. You've got to count your blessings. You've got to count your wins. You've got to acknowledge that this hasn't been easy for anybody, especially your children, and especially for a young woman who's lost their mother. And I think that's important for you to like take that time to really reflect on right, like how have I done? How have I done? What have I done to support this process, to ensure that this is all, you know, through each of these milestones, through each of these moments to celebrate, each of these periods where you're you will look up and be like, man, I can't. Janice should be here. Nalani should be here. Regardless of the relationship, like they should be here to celebrate this child. Yeah. Um, you're gonna have the the graduations from high school. For some point, they're gonna get that driver's license, and you're gonna be waving goodbye as they you know drive off with a couple of their friends in the car. Then there's college. You know, at some point, some dude's gonna show up in front of you know in front of the house.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

You talking about boyfriends now?

SPEAKER_01 47:11

I mean, but listen, man.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Like play it, play it. Listen, you've got to stop right there. I I think for for me and for listeners, I I think so. That's that's a lot to digest. Just the milestone. We'll get to those. Those will be new episodes. That's what that'll be another episode. This the milestone alone of that sweet 16 and them turning off. Oh, we talked about all that preparation. It's been a heavy death already.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

It's been a heavy month now, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:39

It's been heavy.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

So there'll be plenty of time. We'll slow down on we'll slow down on the graduations and give them, give, give the listeners plenty of time to dive down.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Okay. What we just discussed. And so they may have one coming up. That's fair. That's fair in the planet. So, but yeah, we just wanted to let you all know that this is a meaningful time and a pivotal time of many for our family, for our daughters turning 16. Want to just kind of reflect on what it meant to us, to the greater family, yeah. And also just give you all some tips about what this time means, how to approach it, how to think about navigating these practical gaps that are going to always be there for the next milestone. So we really thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

And don't don't get it twisted. Just because we could, you know, tell this story and kind of give you these points, doesn't mean that it was easy. Oh no. Right. Like you know, we would, I'm sure we both were scrambling at the last minute for things we could have planned months ago. Oh, sure. And trying to kick this this celebration, this milestone down the road because we we didn't want to see our our babies turn 16.

unknown 48:59

Yeah, boy.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

And and have another milestone where they it was we felt like it was one less person that should have been there. Yeah. But as usual, we thank you. We appreciate you joining us on our podcast, getting back up, finding life after death.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Subscribe, do all that.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

That helps us and get the word out, and we and help other people. Helping people. That's the mission here. So tell some other people about what you heard and the experiences, and be sure to comment to us.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah, yeah. Let us know about your your your your milestones, your birthday experiences. Look forward to hearing hearing from you soon. Take care. Thank you for joining us on Getting Back Up, finding life after death. If something in today's episode spoke to you, pass it on because somebody out there needs to hear these.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

For sure. We're on all the social mausoleums. So follow us on Instagram, Reds, TikTok. Mostly it will be in the form of Get Back Up Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

And be sure to subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. And remember, getting knocked down is part of life.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

But getting back up, that's how we live. We'll see y'all next time. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

And by the way, that was Bad Boys 2. Okay. The person whose name was Reggie. Reggie, yes. Bad Boys 3, they got actually got married. That's right. I don't remember that. Reggie could survive that onslaught at the beginning. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

It stick through. Yes, that's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Oh, yeah.